noah and the whale interview

first published 19th february 2008

If there is a folk revival happening in London, then Noah and the Whale, must surely be its emerging stars. With a couple of singles out and an album on the way, their support is growing as their sound evolves. I met them at the ICA, halfway through the Young and Lost Club’s (their label) first ever tour.
The band consists of five youngsters. Guitarist and lead vocalist Charlie Fink writes the music. A good-looking fella with a mass of dark curly hair, he's crafted a stage melancholy that seems to vanish when he's not performing. Charlie's brother Doug is the band's drummer, with the physique of an athlete he looks suspiciously like a young Willem Dafoe. Tom Hobden is the fiddler, a quiet and somewhat reserved chap. Laura Marling, her solo career currently on a stratospheric rise, sings and plays various percussion in the band, whilst Urby Whale plays bass as well as a cacophony of other instruments including the xylophone and harmonica.
I ask the band whether their group has a leader. A room of fingers all point at me, I fleetingly think they want me to join and lead them, after weighing up the pros and cons I realise they're pointing at Charlie who is standing next to me. Urby isn’t sure about the question, "Leader's a weird word. Focal point I think is better, Charlie's the man where it all starts." Laura reiterates this point. "If Charlie left it wouldn't be Noah and the Whale." In answer to this Urby comes up with an exquisite pun, "No, it'd be Laura Marling and the Whalers." With his ever-present hat and jovial grin, Urby is an articulate chap. Perhaps the best way to describe him is as someone with whom you know it would be truly spectacular fun to get drunk with. I had developed a theory that Urby was the creative centre of the band. This was based on little more than the fact that people who wear constantly wear trilbys are invariably creative and interesting. However, Urby himself as well as the entire rest of the band assure me that it is Charlie who is at the heart of the music they make. He’s an undeniably gifted writer and producer. He produced Laura's album, which is getting the plaudits it deserves, and he composes Noah and the Whale's music. This is a man who understands how to build complex musical structures. He’s also got a razor-sharp wit. A nice oozy camembert backstage, as well as a few throwaway comments, betray Charlie’s love for cheese. It would probably be a few years away but I hope he doesn't retreat to the country and morph into this generation's Alex James.
There are a significant number of artists in this country, as well as in the US, who are producing folk music. There has been an undeniable resurgence, if not in terms of a quantifiable increase in output, then at the very least as an influence on contemporary mainstream artists. It is far more acceptable now, for the lead singer of a rock band to occassionaly strum away on a 12 string acoustic. In my eternal quest for (yet constant struggle with) definition, I can reel off a list of different sub-genres and offshoots. There’s anti-folk, folktronica, indie-folk, folk punk, folk metal, glam-folk and plenty more. With all these people producing music, there are those commentators that would group them into certain genres. Do these groups exist? Is any “movement” merely the construction of a media eager to pin down and define? “I think it is basically a construct, it's a media thing. Having said that there are a lot of people playing similar kinds of music, but I don't know any of them.” It remains the case that a number of musicians with similar sounds are playing with and supporting each other. Although perhaps to define something as a movement their must be a marriage of individual action with collective intent. “I don't know, I think bracketing bands into groups demeans the music.. Each person’s individual ideas within that creative thing are much more important than the concept. That's not saying we don't think there's a lot of good people in that scene.”
One active proponent and star of the current anti-folk movement in London is Emmy the Great. Her songs combine comedic whimsy with an often very frank and honest pain. She used to play with Noah and the Whale but is no longer with the band. I had read a vicious internet rumour that Emmy was kicked out of the band. When I raised this question wih them, laughs erupt edfrom around the room, "Emmy's a very busy girl. She played music, we played music and she played with us, then she went to do her own thing." So is it a lie? "There was never a formalised thing saying she's got to play with Noah and the Whale. She was never under contract." I realized too late that cunning politicans they aren't, but no one had fully answered the question! However, I didn't sense a real amount of animosity and perhaps it's best if that story simply enters into anti-folk-lore.
Brilliant folk songs have been cropping up with alarming regularity on adverts for everything from mobile phones to cars. Think Joanna Newsom for Orange, Devendra Banhart for T-Mobile and a myriad of other similarly unpleasant examples. The plastering of beautiful music over some cack-handed corporate attempt to sell things, is, I feel, a horrible and jarring juxtaposition. The music that Noah and the Whale have released so far often has had a happy and uplifting texture to it and would probably be ideal for selling a whole host of different products. I wonder aloud how long it will be until a Noah and the Whale song is played in some advert. When the reply comes, "that's a very topical question," I get a little worried. "To be honest, I personally feel pretty nihilistic about that kind of thing. Not if it's a product we don't like, but if it was for cheese or cinemas or something." Urby suggests Ben and Jerry's. "Yeah, we wouldn't promote smoking or McDonalds but otherwise… I don't take adverts into account when I write music, so I just don't care really."
It felt wrong to ask a question about Laura Marling's solo career, even if it was in relation to the band as a whole, but she is selling a lot of records so it became an inevitable point to raise. Having spoken to Laura a week earlier, I was disappointed to see that the intervening period as a basically famous person hadn't lead to outrageous demands for champagne fountains, beluga caviar and bowls of exclusively blue Smarties. Like Dizzee with Roll Deep would Laura be bringing the band on her wave of success? "They're on their own wave of success." It's fascinating to see how the band deal with Laura's identity as a solo artist. A number of people in the crowd were excitedly chattering as they saw Laura appear on stage that night, perhaps unsure if she would actually be appearing. She though, is extremely unwilling to use this occasion to promote her own music. She says she wants the two to be seperate. There were clearly a number of people who were there at least in part to see Laura, when Charlie mentioned her album being out that day they raised an almighty cheer.
"I think we get classified differently by the media just because Laura's a solo artist and we're a band.” This may be true, although in fairness this could be because of the greater difficulty in interviewing a roomful of people rather than one individual. There is a real difference though, when trying to quantify an individual artist as compared to a band. A solo artist is literally one voice, one point of view and one person’s ideas. Yet with a band, even with the afore mentioned “focal point,” it’s more difficult to ascertain where the creative energy and inspiration comes from. The mass of discussions, compromises and executive decisions cannot be examined to be understood. Urby sums this conundrum up quite nicely. “Band's a different word to solo artist. It's two words.”
Noah and the Whale have had two singles pressed already. The first was “Five Years Time,” it provided a nice introduction to the band. Particularly the video, which helpfully names each band member. The song itself is an undeniably happy number. , the ukulele strumming giving it a certain bounce. The lovely chorus of “love love love, wherever you go” and some chirpy whistling put Noah and the Whale on the radar of a number of UK folk fans. The b-side “Jocasta” was less jolly but had a higher tempo. Doug’s urgent drumming on the frame of the drum is an interesting device he’s used a few times to good effect.
Their single out now is “2 Bodies 1 Heart.” It is a slower more ambient sound to their other work and just edges the right side of sentimental. It is somewhat overshadowed by the excellent “Rocks and Daggers.” A genuine crowd pleaser that has people clapping and singing along. It’s a nice track to see live as it allows fiddler Tom to show off his talents and the vocal harmonies come together beautifully.
The video to “2 Bodies 1 Heart” (and “Five Years Time”) was directed by James Copeman. The latter is a hilarious montage of the band as athletes. From the colours of the outfits to the angles and the actual cuts, if Wes Anderson directed music videos, this is precisely what they would look like.
Having recorded their album, I asked how similar it is to their previous output. “It's different from the singles. It's the texture. Some of it's very sparse, with sounds we'd never used before.” A video on youtube gives a tour of their studio. This is anything but lo-fi. Room after room of a plethora of instruments gives the impression of a more than complex recording process. “We’ve used a lot of distortion which links in with the grunge thing.” Kind of like post rock? To which Charlie suggests the magnificent, “post-grunge-folk.”
They reckon that the gig that night was the largest they’d ever headlined. With awareness growing and some sell out nights already it seems their future success is all but assured. How far do they think they’ll go? Charlie smiled sarcastically, “Heard of a little band called the Red Hot Chili Peppers? That's pretty much where we're headed.”
As partB’s exploration of success last week demonstrated, it’s a hard thing to define. “The thing about success is that you're never gonna have a constant goal.
I've don't think there's anyone who's had one goal, achieved it and then thought oh brilliant.” At this point Laura momentarily assumes the role of interviewer, “Wasn't your one goal to support this band called Thanksgiving, who no one's ever heard of anyway? Then you did it last year.” Charlie responds, “Yeah there was like 20 people. It’s true, our biggest ambition was to support Thanksgiving, then we did it and everything since has been downhill.”
Like any real artist, their goal isn’t this ill-defined notion of success. “to be honest, you write music completely independently of any goal you might have. You'll try and create the best thing you can create. Then once that's been done, you think, now what are my ambitions with it. But those ambitions are kind of, "who cares" ambitions, the creative ambitions are much more important.”

Noah and the Whale’s single “2 Bodies 1 Heart” is out now Young and Lost Club

a lass who can really sing - Laura Marling Interview

first published - 12th February 2008

I can’t tell whether she is being modest or she honestly doesn’t understand how popular she will be. I assure Laura Marling that this time next year she will have sold a boat-load of records and, for better or for worse, she will be really, really famous. “I wouldn’t get your hopes up.”
Yet she must be aware of the following that is snowballing around the country. Perhaps when she first started seriously playing music a few years ago, she wouldn’t have expected it, but in the past six months her music has changed. Her fan base, having established itself will only continue to grow.
To those unfamiliar with her songs, she plays what could be described as folk music. Genre can constrain a musician but it does make it easier to describe, “I would call it folk for want of a better word, it's not really folk is it? I don't want it to be whiny bitchy girl music so…”
Her songs range from the hauntingly depressing to the strangely uplifting. Most have a prominent acoustic guitar with various layered percussion instruments. The one astonishing constant is her voice; a sound of such power and subtelty that it must be heard live to be believed. Her music is connecting with a growing number of people, she is going to be huge. I wonder if she wants that, “I'm not sure really. I was thinking about this today, I never wanted to be played on daytime Radio One. I never wanted that.” A bold statement from an up and coming act on a major label. This clearly isn’t her playing up to us, the alternative music press, mostly probably because she read partB for the first time last week. These seem to be the sentiments of a genuine musician. In an age where fame is craved, and success measured by how many magazine covers you’re on, it is nice to meet someone who will be wildly popular but simply wants to make her music. “I could certainly play in front of a hundred people for the rest of my life.”
So if it’s not coming from her, where does the pressure to be conventionally successfull come from? “It's not just the major label. It’s what people expect. People think that you want to be on daytime Radio One. People think you want to be famous. You feel that pressure to perform, that if you're not on daytime Radio One then you're not a success, but I don't want that!” Some could construe this as ungrateful, assuming that everyone on Radio One wants to be there. “When you first get started and people are making an effort to find out who you are that's really fun. You feel really appreciated as people come and look for your records. When you're on Radio One, snobby as it may sound, you're just being given to people.” Or even sold to people, “Yeah yeah exactly. I’m not gonna lie it can be pretty soul crushing. But you have no choice. They pick it up. You don't have to push yourself. Luckily I haven't been given to anyone yet.” It is only a matter of time though.
As her popularity grows she is starting to see that side of the musicians life that they leave out in the brochure. The endless promotion and plugging of your work. “I've never wanted to be interviewed by someone who doesn't know who I am and didn't want the interview that much, only it's their job. I've always been very selective with interviews.”
By the time you read this interview I suspect daytime Radio One listeners will be more than familiar with Laura Marling, although perhaps not with this beautiful philosophy, “At the end of the day who gives a fuck about what anybody else thinks?”
It would be easy to take what she says with a pinch of salt. The fact is quite a few of the songs she has made are quite radio-friendly. Although to be fair most of those songs were written much earlier in her career and she rejects a few of them now. At an in-store Laura did last week there were a lot of fifteen year old girls. A significant proportion were called Emily and a fair few asked her why she didn’t play “New Romantic” anymore. ‘New Romantic’ is a song that could have really pushed Laura Marling into the big time. It was a rather twee and fluffy acoustic number that was not bad but was hardly the most progressive folk music. I raised the topic of another of her old songs that long-time fans may look kindly upon, “London Town.” “It’s rubbish,” she tells me, I protest but she repeats herself, “Come on, I wrote that when I was fourteen, it’s rubbish.” I’m a little taken aback by such a brutal condemnation of her work but concede the ground. The truth is her early work was far from the finished article, but it demonstrated two things; she had an exquisite voice and a gift for poetry. She needed something else to propel her music to the next level, that something came in the form of one Charlie Fink.
Those that don’t take Laura seriously would do well to listen to Noah and the Whale. They are a grunge-folk band in which she plays and sings, although she doesn’t write for them. Their music has little danger of being played on Radio One any time soon. Arguably more optimistic than Laura’s music, Noah and the Whale with their complex array of ukulele, guitar, drums and other layered precussion produce a magnificent sound. Currently on indie label Young and Lost Club, they have recorded an album and are right now touring the UK. The single Five Years Time is out now and it is their happiest (if not their best) song. Laura describes Charlie as “incredibly talented”, and it isn’t that difficult to tell how much influence he’s had on her music. “Six months ago I'd never tried to put anything around my music. Then Charlie came in because I wanted him to produce it. We sat down and he said tell me what you want and I'll try and help you do it.” The melding of their formidable talents has resulted in something really rather special. After recording her four track EP My Manic and I, she went on to record her album, Alas I Cannot Swim, which is out now.
Alas I Cannot Swim is a phenomenal album. “Ghosts”, the first single is the opening number. It is beautifully subtle and hauntingly sad, every bar demands total attention from you. The other stand out track is “Cross Your Fingers”, a rather lovely but kind of bleak song. The one complaint I have with the album is that most of the tracks are played at a slower tempo than when she plays live. A speedier count would not have gone amiss, particularly on title track “Alas I Cannot Swim.”
The album is immediately trying to do something different and not just with its musical content. There are two versions available, one is a limited editon “Song Box.” It’s a big box which contains little mementos for each of the songs. They were designed by Laura wth artwork by Andrew Mockett. It looks quite similar to Joanna Newsom’s first album The Milk-Eyed Mender. There’s a board game, a little booklet with all the lyrics in, postcards and other delightful trinkets. It also contains a code to get a free ticket to the “Song Box tour.”
The idea for the Song Box was Laura’s. “My Dad was a sound engineer so I can’t stand downloads.” The cynic would probably put it that they’re simply trying to make more money. Whilst it is true this is an attempt to “scrape back people buying CDs,” it’s more about having a physical product. In terms of the mementos in the song box it is about “doing something special for people buying the album.”
Downloading is obviously seen as a problem by many people in the music industry. “It's weird because if I'd come in to this five years ago, this wouldn't be a problem.” Yet there are some interesting things happening to try and claw back those sales. The Song Box is one of them, in particular the idea of gig tickets is significant. It seems likely in the future a greater proportion of money will be made by live performances. Radiohead’s releasing of In Rainbows online in a pay-what-you-want format was a fantastic example of one way the industry could go. “That was a fucking cool idea, but they had the support of a record label for a good few albums. Fuckin’ well done to them though. Also they made more money out of the box that they sold.” ­
Laura gained a small degree of fame and notereity in October during a gig at the Soho Revue Bar. After being asked to leave the venue due to her being under 18, she performed an impromptu busking session. Her live performances, whilst not all as surprising as that, do defy expectations. There is no escaping the fact that she is quite a small person. With beautiful delicate features she refuses to wear make up on stage. Thus after a brief and unassuming intro to the crowd, when she unleashes her extraordinary voice upon them there is a certain air of disbelief that such a softly powerful sound is coming from such a diminuitive figure.
The 29th of January marked her first CD release. Previously the only format on which people could buy her music was vinyl. So even if she may disapprove, a significant number of fans have discovered Laura Marling on the internet. Youtube has become a wonderful way to discover music that artists don’t neccesarily have on their Myspace or on any peer to peer networks. This can only have helped Laura because the work done on her videos has been very impressive. James Copeman has worked closely with Laura on her videos. The video for her single Ghosts is particulary interesting. It features what looks like stop motion animation. I ask if she is involved with the videos much, “I wish I were. I just I have no vision like that. I’m completely useless at the visual things.” Yet Laura is basically obsessed with film. I ask her if Cloverfield is any good and I’m met with a scornfully patronising grimace any art school graduate would be proud of. Surely someone so interested in film should be part of the music video making process. “I'd like to, I just don't know enough. That's something I'm really interested in, something I wish I'd been offered at school. I might go on a film studies course.” So this leads me nicely on to the question of what Laura Marling’s going to do next.
First up she has the Song Box tour. The London date is on March the 6th at the Union Chapel but you need to buy the Song Box to get a ticket. She’s touring simultaneously with Noah and the Whale on their Young and Lost Club tour. I balk at the idea of her doing two tours at the same time. “I had this gig with them [Noah and the Whale] and it was meant to be my last gig with them but I couldn't really deal with that”
Having recieved a bass guitar for her birthday she’s already formed a punk band with Charlie Fink. A lot of commentators have mentioned the influence her dad had on her musical tastes, playing her various Neil Young records. However little lip service has been paid to how her Mum’s tastes affected hers. She says her mum is a huge punk fan and Laura adores punk. Although the one piece of music their band The 4Qs has recorded is “about as far from punk as you can get.”
She doesn’t yet know what direction her next album will go in. “That’s another thing that genre does, it confines you. I like the idea of doing something completely different on my next album... maybe plug-in.” There’d be more than one person shouting “Judas” on any future electric tour I reckon. Although with an electric guitar and a proper fuck-you attitude perhaps Laura would morph into this generation’s Debbie Harry.
The comparisons to her contemporaries made by some commentators range from the innaccurate to the frankly absurd. The only common denominator she can see is that rare quality of being female. At my suggestion of it being a London accent she swiftly reminds me that she doesn’t have a London accent but a Reading one. Of course the difference has nothing to do with accent nor indeed gender. “Honestly if anyone's actually heard my music I can safely say they won't seriously think that.”
Laura Marling is on top of a wave about to break. To ride it she will have to work hard and paddle furiously, to stay standing she must perform a remarkable feat of balance. Success is a must because alas, she cannot swim.

Alas I Cannot Swim is out now on EMI.